UncommonGoods

search


Human Nature

The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”

Why you should never date man who knows more math than you.
by Anna Gosline
13 October 2007 Comments 29 Comments

The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”
Image: Anna Gosline
The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Print The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Email The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Digg

Related Books

Two weekends ago I was visiting a dear friend in New England. She has just started a postdoctoral fellowship in Chemistry at an Ivy League University. She has also just started dating an engineering doctoral student at said ILU. They are very smitten. It was disgusting.

During one of their goodbye smooch sessions (while I was attempting to melt beneath the floorboards on my way out the door), my dear friend, let’s call her Judy, accidentally said “I love you” to the Engineer.

This was cause for great distress and she immediately “took it back.”

A few days later, consumed by the saying, taking back, and woefully lack of saying and taking back in return, Judy broached the subject with the Engineer (I was thankfully hanging out with my 21-year old cousin, who attends a nearby Liberal Arts University).

The Engineer, delightful and rational fellow that he is, made it clear that he would not be saying “I love you” until he was sure. Otherwise, he might waste this very important statement by saying it too early in the relationship, when his love was still growing rapidly, thereby taking away the significance in later weeks/months when his love was much, much greater.

Judy, obviously disappointed by this response, pressed and asked WHEN exactly that would be. His response: when dLove/dt = zero.

For those of you who have forgotten your calculus (or blocked it out, or, lucky you, never took it at all) let me explain: he will say “I love you” when the slope of the tangent to the growth curve of his love has reached zero. This indicates of a local maximum and means that the rate of growth (the velocity of love, as it were) has slowed to a stop.

As Judy and I were discussing his response, we found it concerning on several levels. Firstly, if the curve of his love is akin to figure (a) then after he says I love you, he will actually begin to love her less. Which bodeth not well for their long term relationship survival. So then, let’s be generous and suggest the curve of his love is better approximated by figure (b), where the plateau of zero growth might indicate the end of honeymoon/infatuation-type love (a bit late, but not a BAD time to say I love you), which then moves on promptly on to another growth phase, the build up of life-long-partnership-love and the having of babies.

But the second distressing aspect of the whole affair was that somewhere along the line Judy had also mentioned the term “second derivative.” And neither of us could actually remember what this was. We both recalled HOW to take a second derivative (indeed Judy and I took calculus together many years ago), but we couldn’t remember what it actually meant.

Enter massive calculus textbook from our 1st year class (Judy hates throwing away text books).

After searching in the index and finding some helpful examples, we remembered that AHA! the second derivative is akin to acceleration: the rate of rate of growth. And by solving for the second derivative - d2 (love)/dt2 - we could ensure that when d(love)/dt = 0, it is a local maximum (the greatest love), not a local minimum (not the greatest love of all). For when the second derivative is negative = local maximum, as in figure (a); when positive, it’s a local minimum, as in figure (c) (Refresh your memory here). All is happy.

But, you see, I have come up with a better solution. The first few weeks or months of a relationship often result in a very rapid growth of love. Indeed you could even say love is accelerating at a break necking pace (oh har, sorry) not merely speeding along in a linear fashion. Of course this psychotic rampage in love growth can only continue apace for so long and eventually the acceleration will drop to zero, though the absolute value of love is still growing - ie the velocity or d(love)/dt is still greater than zero. An exemplary graph of said derivative can be seen in figure (d).

Try this math teacheresque example; it’s like Judy and the Engineer have the pedal to metal, building up speed along the on ramp to the freeway of love. But once they merge on, and find a nice lane, they can continue traveling at a constant rate, save for pit stops (fights) and the occasionally passing of trucks (make-up sex).  Or better yet, let’s say that falling in love is really actually like falling, wherein the acceleration = 9.8 meters per second squared. When you finally slam into the ground (or reach terminal velocity, which ever suits your particular romantic scenario) and start acting like a normal human beings, instead of a driveling, love-crazed sociopaths, then you know its really time to start saying “I love you.”

In either case, the Engineer should in fact solve for zero in the second derivative to the love-time function and say “I love you” when love has stopped accelerating. This solves the concerning problem of having to wait until his love has stopped growing. Because zero growth in the love function is likely to make any woman, chemist, calculus enthusiast or otherwise, pretty goddamn pissed off.

Comments 29 Comments | The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Print | The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Email | The Calculus of Saying “I Love You”   Digg Share



Comments

hey the graphs were really nice ...bt its really tough to understand all of them!!!!!!!!!i suppose all of them is applicable to each of different stages of love.........

You are acting as if love "just happens" and you sit back and watch it.

Truly, love is a matter of the will. That is, you decide whom to love.

Your variable is better renamed "like" (or even "infatuation"). You don't choose whom to like... it just happens. But you choose to love -- and it is even possible to love those whom you dislike.

If you rename the variable "love" to "like," then it is totally permissible for dLike/dt to plateau and d2Like/dt2 to reach zero. But love, as a matter of the will, continues to grow indefinitely.

"Obbop: let us know how going gay works out for you.
Posted on 10/24/07 at 12:28 PM by blip"

Wonderful!!!!

Your Dad does the most wondrous things with his lips and tongue.

You should be proud of him!!!

By my calculation he is hiding behind some pedantic obfuscation because he has problems showing emotion. I admire your quest for understanding, I would have done the same. But come on.

Ouch! One problem though: How are you defining "love"? Do both Person A & Person B define "love" in the same manner? It sounds like you're assuming "love" is a constant. That's not an accurate assumption. What if one mistakes infatuation or lust for love?

You will probably need many more graphs. And "Judy" will probably need many more lovers.

I hope she knows that whenever he talks about their relationship "blowing up," that's a good thing. She might also consider that expressing herself in Leibnizian notation is going to cause awkwardness. Regarding the vicissitudes of love, look to Newton. Remember that he wrote L, L', L'' etc. Why she'd ever want to get involved with somebody one dimensional is another matter (i.e. unless he's complex and hiding his imaginary part).

For phuck sakes!!! You went into this whole analysis - consuming what sounds like several weeks of late night phone calls and digging up texts and creating graphs...

What he did was make what seemed like a logical comment, had a beer with the guys and then went to bed thinking - "Man I shot a great game of golf today - AND - got laid!"

Stop giving yourself an ulcer over analyzing everything he says and just enjoy your time together.

Show up naked - bring beer.

Or, put more elegantly - http://xkcd.com/55/

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 2nd derivative blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Think again very very carefully about what "F" posted above in the comments, and this entire post will be rendered moot:

The "love" is equivalent to "velocity" (km/h), not "displacement"(km)

and so, "d(love)/d(t)" is analogous to "acceleration". In this case, he means exactly what you wished he would mean, that his love could not rise anymore, that he had reached a maximum.

Instead of harping and nitpicking about "zero growth in the love function", is it hard to believe that the poor guy meant it in a romantic way, that he would love her so much that he could not possibly love her anymore? And after that, it doesn't have to decrease! It can stay at the maximum. I'd bet my left nut that's what he meant.

Also, isn't having lots of love(figure d, assuming the plateau is very very high) more important than having the love grow? Is there a big difference in "I love you very very much" and "I love you very very very much in 6 months time"?

I mean this in the most direct way, and I apologise if I'm being very offensive: if this post is not being written in jest...... this reinforces the impression that someone is very insecure, and it's not the guy.

And ditto about an Ivy League postgrad not knowing about a second derivative. Shame on you.

Obbop: let us know how going gay works out for you.

Anybody who makes you work that hard to figure him out deserves to be dumped.

Poor Judy; there are a family of cases in which the Engineer's love continues to grow forever but dLove/dt NEVER comes to equal zero: the case in which Love(t) has the form n-ne^-t. Whip out your favorite graphing app and check it out. Judy may have to convince the Engineer to wait only until dLove/dt takes on a value within some epsilon value of zero -- that is, "reaches zero" WITHIN SOME SMALL TOLERANCE. Fortunately, Engineers know all about tolerances, so she should be okay.

Unless you're a mechanical engineer or pursuing a career in math, the probability of ever needing derivatives or anything related to intro to calculus is almost zero. Ivy or no Ivy, no one remembers this stuff. And to be even more honest, the Ivys aren't necessarily the best post-bac and post-doc schools. (This is by no means a dig on your Judy, more of a comment to the people awed by the names of the Ivys).

I think the writer missed the fact that at dLove/dt = 0, we actually have an equilibrium (though unstable which in a way is akin to a relationship) and assuming concavity of this love function, the engineer will continuously offer the max amount of love..

LOL

Wrong, of course. It makes no sense to refuse to say "I love you" until it reaches a local maximum. WTF? Love - real love, anyway - is constantly growing in one way or another. So your love at t=22 is somehow going to "take away the significance" of your greater love at t=220?

I think what he's really saying is "I'll say I love you when my dInsecurity/dt = zero. That is, a local minimum, not a local maximum, of course.

Oh, and possibly dBullshit/dt = zero

It seems likely that the Engineer doesn't think that their state of infatuation is really love. Maybe its a temporary euphoric state induced by lots of dopamine, and the respective brains will eventually become habituated to. Drawing on attachment theory, the Engineer's ideal of love is modeled on his childhood relationship to his primary caregivers, and assuming that it was relatively stable, the ups and downs caused by serotonin depletion are another reason to take the current state of affairs with a grain of salt.

Please count me among the number of people completely shocked that a postdoc at an Ivy League school had to look up what a 2nd derivative was.

I'm still on 1+1=1 and it's been working out really well. I've observed that when it's over thought or complicated it can make your head hurt.
On a personal note Obbop, if you would stop referring to WOMEN as "females" your head might not hurt so much.
smile

I am kind of shocked that you still don't get what he really meant. He meant that his love is growing, and once it has reached its maximum, that's when dLive/dt = 0. Love doesn't have to decrease after that. Take graph d) and relabel it with "love" and "t" instead of "dLove" and "dt" and you've got what he meant.

So much thought and you still don't understand men.

From my current perspective (no longer 20-something for some time) I have to say the model assumed is too simplistic (all models are, of course, but this one omits way too much).

First, the model clearly needs to be non-linear, but also multivariate. Simply recording and then inferring something from dLove/dt without more "guts" in the model is a bit dubious. Like technical stock buying without fundamentals. Love is dependent on quite a few variables which fortunately prevents all manner of socially embarrassing situations.

Second, there's the "stochastic resonance" aspect of relationships. That is, the low level noise floor that keeps things lubricated and can be the trigger for chaotic or at least non-linear state-space shifts. Adding a noise floor to a model changes things quite a bit because your dLove/dt may not be indicative of anything if it's just an expression of random noise.

Once a nerd, always a nerd. Only the models get more complex.

I am amused by the initial assumption that love can be plotted linearly. Sometimes it is worth remembering that quantifiability /= reality.

Pretty big assumptions of the smoothness of love. And the quantifiability of it. If I wanted to melt some pants off I'd hold back til my love wasn't differentiable.

In my opinion..... females do not care about this "love" stuff.

Nope.

I believe females want blind obedience from males and for the male's entire universe to revolve around the oh-so deserving "precious princess."

BAH!!!!!!!

I have joined the movement of males who have decided to banish females from our lives as much as possible.

http://www.dontgetmarried.proboards75.com/index.cgi

I forgot to add "and thus bears no relation to dLove being equal zero, even though d^2Love is zero."

You got D wrong. dLove does not equal 0 in D. How about taking Introduction to Calculus again?

To be fair, she remembered what it was, and how to take it and that she used them in her daily calculations; it was just that in the tilted land of applying calculus to matters of the heart we could remember what it "meant" in problem solving terms.

Also, please recall that she was newly smitten and most of her brain was complete goo, anyways. No really.

I find all this terribly disturbing.

How can it be that a postdoc in Chemistry at an Ivy League school doesn't know what a second derivative means?!

Speaking of love, I think I have a crush on your teacher, Harv.

I had a differential equations teacher (female) who actually used these as homework and exam problems. (i.e. what is the fate of Romeo and Juliet if their relationship is described by these equations)

But to actually use that in conversation with a sig. other? wow.

Commenting is not available in this section entry.